Confused
It can be so confusing. Are we supposed to have masses and pray for the dead, or do we ask them to pray for us? Which is when and how do you really know?
Labels: church
posted by Keith | Wednesday, December 07, 2011
8 Comments:
Would it make it more or less confusing for you if I were to tell you that the we pray FOR both the NT Saints and the OT Righteous during the Holy Liturgy? :-)
I suspect the EO practice is different than the RC practice, which was the subject of my musing. RC's pray for the souls in purgatory, while also asking the souls in glory to pray for them. It seems necessary in that system, then, to know whether the soul in question is still in purgatory or has advanced to glory. But how can anyone on this side can know such a thing with certainty? Which is just one more problem with the whole scheme. This must be what the whole "sainthood" status is designed to answer. Once declared a Saint, the soul is definitely believed to be in glory and so can pray for us on this side. But even if you grant the idea of purgatory, how can any human court know with certainty what the status is of a particular soul on the other side? The whole system should be abandonded. Pray to God, not to creatures.
For starters, I'd like to mention here the absolute obvious: that the Holy Angels don't fall into your pessimistic and reductionist scheme [and neither do Enoch and Elijah, for that matter]: hence why even the ancient Jews aked for their intercessions... :-)
Besides, no-one doubts the blessed state of at least certain Saints: John the Baptist, the Mother of God, the Holy Apostles, Martyrs, Prophets, Patriarchs, King David, the Holy Angels, etc.
To finally address your question: I'm guessing because of results: Saints answer prayers and do miracles for the glory of God, so it's not exactly a one-way street..
Okay, it's not that confusing really. I was trying a little sideways criticism that doesn't work very well.
Does the EO church teach that *saints* answer prayers or do they qualify that and say *God* answers prayers through the *intercession* of the saints. I mean, I assume you do not credit heavenly power to answer prayers directly to the saints in glory.
(?And angels, evidently? I don't know if Roman Catholics pray to angels, but I assume from your comments that the EO do? It is unfamiliar to me and seems to be a much less frequent practice in this part of the world than prayer to saints. The only example that comes to mind is the kind of exclamation, "Saints and angels preserve us!" that some character in an old movie might say.)
God is all-knowing and the source of everything. Nothing happens without His knowledge and approval (obviously).
The answer is that Rome infallibly tells you when a dead person has become a saint. That's why they make sure the relics have done a miracle first--God wouldn't let someone's relics do anything if the person was still in purgatory.
Obviously.
Except St Christopher, oops.
what's the story on St. Christopher?
The story is that he never existed, a clerical mistake confusing the title "Christ-bearer" associated with the martyr Minas with the name of an additional person.
The medieval era is full of legendary saints who never existed and have since been repudiated by the Vatican. Yet Rome wants us to believe that the essential religious practice that grew up around such myths and legends really is sanctioned by the Holy Spirit; the Church merely erred in making the list of saints too long.
In Catholicism, lies are an important source of revelation.
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