Pseudo-Fathers?
Another thought on the Early Church Fathers.
One of the arguments that Roman Catholics make is that the Early Church Fathers (ECF) are so *catholic* all the way back to the earliest days. How, they ask doubting Protestants, could all these Roman Catholic distinctives have appeared so *soon* after the days of the apostles unless the apostles themselves were teaching these things. The Protestant answers that if such things were important for us to believe, God would have made sure they got into the Bible. The Catholic replies that the *tradition* of the apostles that accompanied their writings have been preserved in the ECF.
So, I'm reading along with my eyes peeled for any mention of Mary's perpetual virginity, or prayers to departed saints, or veneration of holy icons, and the the writers are getting farther and farther away from the time of the apostles, and there's nothing of the sort.
Suddenly there's a letter from Ignatius to the apostle John, full of stuff about Mary, and how they'd all love to come and visit John and Mary, and how he'd also like to see James, because he's practically the twin of Jesus, even though he's just a cousin like Jude.
Ignatius is early, martyred in 108 maybe, and he either did or did not have personal acquaintance with John, so such a letter would strengthen many a Roman Catholic claim.
But it turns out this was written not by the *real* Ignatius, but by somebody they call "Pseudo Ignatius" who wrote several things like this near the end of the 4th century.
So much for early attestation of the Mary stuff.
And that leaves me with two questions:
1) Is Pseudo-Ignatius an early church father or is he an early church pseudo-father? Is a guy who writes under an assumed name really the kind of guy we want to honor in the church? If I wrote something in George Washington's name and tried to pass it off as authentic, would I have a place of honor among historians? Don't tell me that this was common practice in the day. Tell me if you think it is Honest and Right.
2) If the Mary stuff that Pseudo-Ignatius wrote to support were really current in the first generation after the apostles, why did he feel the need to backfill history? It seems to me that the obvious conclusion here is there *was* no such doctrine in the first generations of the church, P-I was troubled by that lack, so he had to invent some in the late 4th century.
One of the arguments that Roman Catholics make is that the Early Church Fathers (ECF) are so *catholic* all the way back to the earliest days. How, they ask doubting Protestants, could all these Roman Catholic distinctives have appeared so *soon* after the days of the apostles unless the apostles themselves were teaching these things. The Protestant answers that if such things were important for us to believe, God would have made sure they got into the Bible. The Catholic replies that the *tradition* of the apostles that accompanied their writings have been preserved in the ECF.
So, I'm reading along with my eyes peeled for any mention of Mary's perpetual virginity, or prayers to departed saints, or veneration of holy icons, and the the writers are getting farther and farther away from the time of the apostles, and there's nothing of the sort.
Suddenly there's a letter from Ignatius to the apostle John, full of stuff about Mary, and how they'd all love to come and visit John and Mary, and how he'd also like to see James, because he's practically the twin of Jesus, even though he's just a cousin like Jude.
Ignatius is early, martyred in 108 maybe, and he either did or did not have personal acquaintance with John, so such a letter would strengthen many a Roman Catholic claim.
But it turns out this was written not by the *real* Ignatius, but by somebody they call "Pseudo Ignatius" who wrote several things like this near the end of the 4th century.
So much for early attestation of the Mary stuff.
And that leaves me with two questions:
1) Is Pseudo-Ignatius an early church father or is he an early church pseudo-father? Is a guy who writes under an assumed name really the kind of guy we want to honor in the church? If I wrote something in George Washington's name and tried to pass it off as authentic, would I have a place of honor among historians? Don't tell me that this was common practice in the day. Tell me if you think it is Honest and Right.
2) If the Mary stuff that Pseudo-Ignatius wrote to support were really current in the first generation after the apostles, why did he feel the need to backfill history? It seems to me that the obvious conclusion here is there *was* no such doctrine in the first generations of the church, P-I was troubled by that lack, so he had to invent some in the late 4th century.
Labels: early church fathers
posted by Keith | Saturday, May 28, 2011
4 Comments:
Dude, you have a rocking series of posts started here. I'm anxious to read more of your thoughts. Keep it up.
Good questions.
The thing is, RCs say that it's "Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium."
The thing is, you point to an inconvenient Scripture, and it's "Well, that's not the way Tradition and Magisterium understand it."
You read the Fathers, and point to a passage (read fairly) that is in tension with the Magisterium, and, well, "That's not part of the Tradition because the Magisterium does not accept that fatherly teaching."
It's not "Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium." It's "Magisterium, Magisterium, Magisterium." And that means what the hierarchy *today* says the church teaches.
In my experience with RCs, they conflate the magisterium with the unbroken tradition of the early church. From what you say, Jim, the more honest ones do not depend on that conflation. But in the popular arguments, there is a confusion of early tradition and today's magisterium. That false conflation is what I'm trying to expose.
The usual Orthodox response I've run into is that this was a 'unique form of piety' that was totally acceptable back then. Of course, they wouldn't think highly of you trying to do the same thing today, so it proves your point.
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